All of Comfort Zone Agrees

Welcome to Comfort Zone, a podcast all about pushing your hosts, well, outside of their comfort zone. I'm Christopher Lawley, and each week I am joined by two insatiable co-hosts. As always, I'm joined by Matt Birchler. Matt, how are you doing? Oh, Chris, I'm so uncomfortable. I've never seen you from this angle. It's a new angle. I'm filming my iPadOS 26 walkthrough, the top-down shots right now, at my normal desk, or at the desk i normally film at so i can't move that stuff to film comfort zone so comfort zone is getting

filmed at the desk i normally do work at so what camera are you using are using your normal camera still it is my normal camera it is still my normal camera i just put it on a tripod and literally the tripod is literally sitting on my desk here you know what for for for video viewers i'll do this so you can kind of see i don't know if you could see that no because i use the wrong camera i'm an I'm an idiot. There we go. There we go. Video viewers, you can see that's the opposite side of the setup right there. Nice. Yeah. So, yeah.

Yeah. Oh, we're also joined by Nelian. Nelian, how are you doing? Sorry about that. Yes. No worries. I am also joined by an avocado plushie. Does the avocado have a name? No. Is this an avocado friend who is also a focus app? No. It's just a plushie. It's just a plush avocado. Why has everything to be an app? I wasn't going to bring it up, but since Matt brought it up, I did try Focus Flight. It's okay. It's okay? Look, it's not a bean.

I can't fight that criticism. It's not a bean. It's not a bean. So, you know, is what it is. But, yeah, I have no idea where I was going with that. Transition. Insert transition here. uh we got tiny topics and i can guarantee you i know who put the first item in here yes i have a statement yeah it's wrong i published on mastodon that i will have a statement today on

comfort zone as the official representative of the color orange i have something to say about the new orange iPhone 17 Pro. That's cosmic orange, by the way. Sure. It's the wrong kind of orange, is my statement. It's too dark, too saturated, and too dark at the same time, which does not go well together for hardware, generally, even software.

I mean, in general. Orange should be brighter, lighter, more pastel. You know what I mean? This is not the correct orange. And hence, as the official representative of the color orange, I condemn the new iPhone 17 Pro. Condemn? I condemn it, yeah. Wow. You are absolutely wrong. Cosmic Orange is great.

Everyone knows it. It's fantastic. It's made our economy strong again. Oh, no. Everyone knows Cosmic Orange is great. Why would you know? Because you are the representative of the color black. So you're used to mush all the colors together. So you have no idea, actually. I have a correct idea of what orange should be. I would like to point out that if I'm a representative of a color, yes, I will take black. But I would also like to take dark green as is the walls, the tree, my shirt, just in this shot alone.

I like dark green. Like, bring back the iPhone 11 Pro's color. Bring back the forest green or whatever that was called. That was a good iPhone color. But Cosmic Orange is amazing. That is what I will be getting when I can get an iPhone. Because right now is actually pre-order day, the day we're recording. Matt, I'm curious. How do you feel about Cosmic Orange? I think this phone looks incredible. Yes. Two out of three comfort zone hosts agree. Cosmic Orange is fantastic.

we are right Neelion is wrong we can move on to the next thing I mean you're also wearing a wrong kind of orange watch band right now I'm saying this watch band this is the the Nomad Goods Ultra watch band this thing is fantastic and you know who else has one of these Jason Snell at WWDC he came up to me he was like good watch band I looked down and we both had it I don't get it nope Jason Snell agrees with this orange watch band so and he has the site, six colors. So he knows about colors. That's true. Is one of them orange? One of them must be orange.

There's no orange in six colors? Is there? Maybe there is. I don't remember. I don't know. How many colors are there? I like the idea that when Neliana's queen she will just like have a day of the week that's devoted to looking at things that are orange and saying yes, no, yes. Absolutely. Follow up. Orange is one of the colors and on the banner. C is green. O is yellow. L is orange. The second O is R. Let me check. What orange is it?

Okay. It's a good looking orange. Hey, have you noticed that if you just look at the two O's and the L in six colors, it makes a very strong shape. That's all I'm going to say. Okay. Anyway. Okay. Yeah. Anyways. Okay. So this next admin follow-up, I'm genuinely concerned this is just part of our show notes template. Like, is this literally just in our template now?

The next item, you mean? Yeah, the next item in our show notes, our document. Is this just a part of the template now? The item is, I put it in there this week. Hey guys, I found this new web browser. It's really nice. And you think it's part of the template now, this phrase? Yes, because we talk about new web browsers like every week. Yeah. We should be the browser podcast. No, thanks. I'm good. I mean, you have no choice.

I legitimately do not have a choice. It is a WebKit browser for me. I just get to choose what skin it has it. And if I choose something other than the default one, I don't get to use extensions. Okay. Anyway, so I put it in there because I'm in the browser void, the nightmare of I don't know which browser I want to use. You know, a few weeks ago, I switched back to Arc. And then it got acquired by the worst company I could think of to acquire the browsing company, Atlassian.

So I don't feel like using it anymore, especially because they really liked for this acquisition. In the context of this acquisition, they really like to say that DIA is going to be great. And there was no words about ARK, so its future is very uncertain. Anyway, so it's a dark picture that I want to paint today of web browsers. I've been a user of Safari for a decade, and Safari looks terrible in Tahoe, so I ain't going to use that.

Firefox, please somebody recommend a designer to Mozilla. They should hire one someday is my suggestion. Vivaldi is kind of great, but a bit too great in terms of the amount of customization that you have on hand. It's overwhelming. And I am never able to have a setup that works right for me in Vivaldi. And Arc, as I said, is problematic. now and Zen browser is way too clunky for me right now.

I've said it before. So my new web browser, it's really nice, guys. It's Google Chrome at the moment. It's really nice. It's actually not great. I mean, I'm using it in a very simple and basic way, which is the way that I was using Safari before. With the exception that profiles in Chrome are a lot nicer than profiles in Safari, in my opinion.

They're easier to switch between. And tab groups are much better handled in Google Chrome than in Safari as well. So, yeah. Yeah. I mean, this aligns with my ongoing unpopular message that Chrome is better than people give it credit for. So, I support it. Yeah. okay yeah all right well uh oh god seriously so i've added i've added another item to the uh the follow-up um or the the what are these called tiny topics tiny topics thank you my brain broke

um i have a really nice browser as well um i have after months and months of deliberation i'm back on arc and i'm just very happy i'm very happy with it it's very nice it's the best that exists it does profiles better than anything else and ironically even though i do not like that atlassian bought them because atlassian doesn't make delightful software um the ironic thing is i live in atlassian apps and the thing that made arc great for me is that i was loading up jira and confluence and all these things in there and it worked perfectly so it's kind of a match made in

happen even though it's uh it's a match made in hell i don't know it's uh yeah what happens when arc uh is no longer like supported in future versions of mac os or something like that well it'll be unheard of will have to happen and i'll have to change my web browser there we go and then we'll have even more web browser and then we'll have more to talk about You know, last week in the first episode of Cozy Zone, people got a look at our desk setups.

And if you look at Matt in his doc on his monitor, he has four browsers in his macOS doc, four web browsers. I've really been going through it. I've been doing the work. Okay. Well, speaking of Cozy Zone, that's a good transition right there. We mentioned it in the last episode. It's our new membership show. You can check it out. There's links in the show notes to go look for it and sign up for it. This week on Cozy Zone, we went over our top five favorite video games of all time.

And I'm not going to spoil it, but there is a revelation in that episode that I... And I think I can speak... Well, I don't want to give it away. But I just... I will say I didn't think it was possible. I did not think what one of my co-hosts said is possible for anyone that has ever played a video game in the 20th or 21st century. I just did not think this was possible. And, yeah, things will...

Yeah, people were shook to their cores. Yeah, it was wild. So go check it out. There's links in the show notes or description if you're watching on YouTube, whatever it is. Cozy Zone, that's the topic for that week. You guys ready to get in the main show? Yeah. Yeah. All right, Matt. Just do it. So this is new iPhone week. So obviously everybody wants to talk about new phones. And what I have, also continuing my topic of bringing things that Chris and Neil Ian just don't like.

Legit do not care about this whatsoever. So I have been using the Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra as my phone for two weeks now. SIM card in it and everything, doing all the things. And I wanted to, with the understanding that most people listening to this are iPhone users, that I have an iPhone audience here live with me, and I really need to keep them engaged to keep this going.

So what I'm going to try to do is explain to you why I really like this phone and don't like it for some other reasons. But you're going to get mad at me. So here's a few things. Is it orange first? It is not orange. Actually, you can't tell it. This is definitely taking from the – this is a blue phone technically. That looks kind of purplish. It does look purplish. fair we're i'm looking at it through riverside and i'm sure the videos compress crazy amounts it does look purplish it's very much uh those apple colors were like it's or like the macbooks

that are like blue but it's like only a certain light sort of thing but anyway it looks nice it's fine um let's go through some things that i think are lovely about this and i'm just gonna start i'm gonna rip the band-aid off i think the back gesture on android is actually very good and i wish it was on ios oh like the little back button thing well okay i went too far i don't wish it was on ios ios has different solutions that work for this but the back gesture is so nice once you kind of like

get how it works and don't try to treat it just like ios can you remind me is it just because it's been a while since i've i've used a android phone i have like android gaming devices but those have that's a whole separate thing does the back button just go back to your previous app or what does it do so the so yeah so they've they have they've adopted the same like swipe gestures that ios has right so you can swipe to um close apps and everything and go to multitasking however the back so it's a gesture now it used to be a button you can still do the buttons if you

want some people do i don't understand but um the back gesture is basically like an iphone you can pull in from the side of the screen and it goes back unlike an iphone you can pull in from the other side of the screen and it also goes back and as a right-handed person that's actually really nice because you can do it with one hand you don't have to like especially for like an ultra like a max user I have to do it with two hands usually I have to like get a second finger up there but an android nope just swipe and it works and it goes back to whatever you were just at so if you're in an app like you're in an email app

you're in your inbox you go into an email you hit back you go back to the inbox from the inbox if you hit back again where do you think you go probably home you go to the home screen but okay if you go from like if you click in a link in the mail like you go to go to your inbox go to an email click a link in the email it opens your browser hit the back button you go back to the email hit it again you go to the inbox so you just go back in the chain so it's kind of like i would think of it like a browser back button where it just takes you to the last place you were

it could be the same site or like app or it could be somewhere else that got you here but it just keeps taking you back until you get back to the home screen and there's no more backs to go you know that's actually i think that's actually something that android users miss the most like i've seen this mentioned before multiple times yeah among friends who have switched from android to ios and they miss this like the fact that on ios there's not a single back button or back gesture or back mechanism even,

because when you go back in iOS, yes, it's app-dependent. It's different from... It's usually the same thing, but it's not always. Exactly, yeah. And yeah, it's interesting. It's always been like this on Android. Before, it used to be the hardware button, back button, then become an on-screen virtual button, and then they made it a gesture, which explains why it still works this way. I don't think they would build Android like that today if they started with just gestures.

Maybe they wouldn't, yeah. I don't know. But it is 100% one of the biggest disconnects I see between iPhone users and Android users. iPhone users think it makes no sense at all. And then Android users, when they try an iPhone, they're like, I don't know how to go back. I don't like it. And iPhone has that sort of thing. In most apps, you could go from your email message and swipe from the left edge and go back to the inbox. And if you tap a link in your email, you go to the browser, and then up in the top left, there's that tiny little mail icon, right?

Well, now in iOS 26, it's just an arrow. Is it? I don't know. It rarely says back now. Where's the link? Oh, yeah, it says... This is never going to focus. Yeah, it says like Mindstream up there. Yeah. Oh, that. That tiny little thing. Yeah. Yes, yes. So that's how you kind of go back to another app. So I guess I understand why an Android user would be like, okay, inside an app, I have to swipe from one side.

Not all apps support it, but most apps do. If I'm going from one app to another app back, there's this new button that disappears if I do another thing. So anyway, I actually like the back gesture. It is conceptually not going to work on iOS because of all the iOS things, but I understand why people like it now because i used to not like it so huh this was the toughest one to take i don't think chris is totally convinced no i i i'm good you could not care less i i get how ios works i did honestly i like the back button that shows up in the top left corner on ios i don't ever use that

either i just if i want to go back to the previous app i just swipe at the bottom i swipe yes i like to the right on the bottom. I love that feature. I do that all the time, just like to jump back to the previous app. It's so fast, so I'm good. I have two things to complain about while we're on this topic. Is one of them liquid glass? No, no. Not directly, at least. In iOS 26, there's a new thing that seems kind of nice at first glance, which is that now you can go back.

There's a gesture to go back can perform in the middle of the screen. Like now you can swipe from the middle of the screen to go back instead of from the edge. However, that doesn't work when there's something interactive in the middle of the screen, like an email, if you're in the mail inbox, if you swipe in the middle of the screen, it's going to swipe on the email and perform the gestures on that email. So I kind of dislike that. It's Safari as well.

now you can swipe back, swipe to go back from the middle of the web page instead of from the edge. And there as well, it depends if there's something already interactive in the middle of the page. I don't really like that inconsistency. Interesting. I can't get that to work. It works in Mimestream for me. Yeah, it doesn't seem to be in every app as well. Okay, interesting. I'm trying it in Safari.

Oh, it seems they... Did they remove it from Safari? Maybe they removed it in some beta. Yeah, I'm on some pages that definitely don't have anything interactive. I'm not swiping on links, and it doesn't... I have to go to the edge to go back. Okay, at least it's not in Safari anymore, if it's been there. But yeah, it's some apps, like, yeah, in a mail app, I believe. That was where I found it inconsistent. and it could interfere with gestures.

Anyway, the second thing I want to complain about is what was it again? I forgot. Oh, no. Okay, that's it then. Yeah. It'll come back to you. Okay, other nice things about this phone and just kind of Android things in general. In the Google Messages app, There is an option to automatically delete two FA codes 24 hours after you receive them. It's a little thing, but it's nice.

The messages just go away. But messages does that already. Like you can set it up to where once you use the code, it deletes it. I think it's in like settings or something, but like once, and it's not 24 hours. It's like immediate. As soon as you use it, as soon as you hit the autofill thing, it'll delete that message automatically. Huh. Okay. Well, I should figure that out. I swear to God, I turned something like that on. Did you really not know about this? Because it's become kind of a meme where people will post this on TikTok and what else on social media.

Like, hey, did you know that you can auto-fill two FA codes on iOS and automatically delete? Oh, yeah, the classic tweet. Best feature ever. Yeah, best feature ever. Incredible. But the auto-delete thing, that one's new. Oh, okay. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I just don't remember where it's at. I know it's a setting you turn on. It's been a problem before where I have used a 2FA code on a web page, but the web page doesn't work in some way. The form doesn't work.

And now I'm going to look up what was the 2FA code again in the messages app, and it's gone because it auto-deleted. Okay. I'm in the settings app. I don't see anything for this, but I'm sure it exists. I will find it. Well, is it in the mail app, Chris? Are we conflating? No, I know it's in messages as well. It's in both. It's in mail and messages. Okay. Well, this gets me to a second point I'd like to bring up, which is a Samsung specific thing, which is their, they call it AI search.

I don't know how AI it is, but in the settings app at the top, there's a little search bar where you can search for the settings. And for the life of me, especially on macOS, I can never find what I'm looking for with that search thing. Like it requires exact matches on like five words or whatever. So like I never find what I'm looking for. The Samsung search is very good. So you kind of just say like I would like to automatically turn on dark mode at a certain time. And it knows what that means and takes you to the right place. So very, very good. I like that.

The dictation is actually good. This is probably the case for all Android phones. But Google's dictation is so much better than Siri. it does punctuation it understands that if I pause for more than two seconds it doesn't mean I'm done talking which Siri seems to do so some follow up really quick go into settings general settings general what was this passwords

autofill and passwords sorry autofill and passwords fourth option delete after use, automatically delete verification codes in messages and mail after they are used. Oh. Why is this sitting there? I know. I was looking at messages. I was looking at mail. I was looking at privacy. Eventually, I just started doing search and found it. I suppose it makes sense, but okay. I understand it now, but yeah, interesting.

Okay. Back to the good stuff. Here's my home screen. Beautiful. You will notice there are no labels on the app icons. That's actually my second home screen. But anyway, same deal. No app icon labels. But the app icons are not enormous. Go with me here. What if you didn't have to have enormous icons? Genius. To have no text there. If you like the big icons, you can keep them.

But what if? What if you wanted a little choice? Yeah. Just say it. I remember when I revented my home screen on iOS, and I have folders now on my home screen, and my folders didn't have names. I leave them blank. And it helps my brain, too, because if I have names, it will always be too specific for me to categorize apps into. And you can't just leave the field empty. iOS wants you to give it a name.

so you you still have this very old trick you go on on safari you type in google blank character for ios folder name and then you copy a blank character into ios and then into the folder field and there you go you have a blank name and i'm just saying what if you didn't have to do that what if you don't have to um so that's nice uh on ios you have picture in picture for video which is awesome on android you also have that for navigation so if you're using a navigation app uh the navigation can go into a corner which you obviously won't use the full time but it makes

it very easy to get back to it which is nice and kind of monitor it while you're uh doing something else or if like the person next to you in the car is like using your phone for something they can still see the navigation while they're doing whatever they're doing um the play store has this cool feature where if you're downloading a larger app especially when you hit like install from the Play Store, there will be a little toggle that you can enable that says open the app once the download is done, which is very nice. So you don't have to like remember to go find it in your app library or something. That's nice.

And then, oh, the clipboard. There's a clipboard manager built in, which is cool. And what I really like is when you have just copied something to your clipboard, just like in the last minute or two, and you focus on a text field, right above the keyboard, kind of where iOS has, where it would have, like, here's the 2FA code or whatever. When there's something freshly on your keyboard, or on your clipboard, it will show what's on your clipboard and let you paste it, just like the 2FA code, which is really, really nice.

Works with passwords, automatically masks them and everything, but, like, it's quite good. So there's some nice stuff. Oh, and the 10X camera on this is pretty good, but it's kind of like the 5X camera on the iPhones where it's sufficient, but not as good as the other ones. Yeah, I've seen the... I think this is the Google Pixel, but I've seen the photos going around of the 100X lens. Those photos look terrible. Yeah, 100 is no good.

30 is pretty rough, but 10 is good. Is that the phone where I should zoom on the moon or is that still a thing? I don't know if they still do that. They replace it with a picture of the moon. Seriously? That's terrible. They did that I think once. I think they stopped doing that but yes. Yeah. I think there was more nuance there but the internet doesn't care. I don't care. I mean Chris doesn't care. I definitely don't care.

He's like no I will not be listening to the nuance on this. Okay. Bad things. And then I have a mixed thing. bad things. These cameras, very good. Like, especially the main lens, very much iPhone-esque. I'm sure there's differences, but like, quite good. It is a 200 megapixel sensor that bins down to 12 megapixels or 50 megapixels. And I would really like it if it would do 24, because 50 is too much and is a little slower to like save and like use the shutter. And 12 in 2025 feels like not enough so i want i want the iphone 24 megapixels um so that'd be nice but the problem with them

is that they are all on one side of the phone and there's no like uh what is it the iconic plateau or whatever or the camera bar so this sucker wobbles like crazy like these stick down so far and it just is a wobble machine it's insane i've never seen a phone wobble this much so i don't like that okay it also has very sharp edges so if you remember the iphone 12 13 14 generations with the stainless steel it's that again yeah um i hate it i really really find it uncomfortable so i don't like that and then they have live activities or like an equivalent of live activities but they're

not fully native to android it's a samsung custom thing so not every app supports them Not that every iOS app supports live activities, but not every app supports them. The ones that do are pretty good. I was able to monitor a football game yesterday with it. It will do playback controls there. So there's some of the stuff you'd expect, some of the normal stuff, but it's not as nicely integrated and it's not quite as good as live activities.

But then there's one last thing that I want to mention, which is a stylus. so there's a stylus and uh i don't know what to think about this it is almost never useful but it's super super useful when i'm selecting text it's much more precise than my finger it's

super useful for marking up screenshots on the occasions that i need to do that and it's a very nice fidget toy um if you need that and it's it's completely unnoticeable the rest of the time so it doesn't like take away anything um they could probably fill up more battery but how is it a fidget toy like what i mean you can just kind of like pop it in and out and it clicks in kind of like a pen cap um i like that you can just kind of like take it out and put it back in and the phone like has a little haptic feedback when it's like locks itself back in so

That's satisfying. One thing I almost, so this is the 25, the S24 version of this. This pen had a Bluetooth connection to the phone. It no longer does. And so you could like set up the camera and then walk away for like a group shot. And you could like hit the button on this and it would snap the photo. So that would have been nice to have. But as of right now, there is a button on this I can click, but I have no idea what it does. I can't figure it out. Is it like an action button, like a programmable button?

Well, it's not. There's no connection to the phone. There's no like. So I don't know what it does. Is it a button? It clicks like a button. Maybe they gave me the wrong pen. Maybe it's a locking thing when it's in its slot. I don't know. Well, there's a thing on the sides that I think it locks into. But yeah, I don't know. I'm really mixed on it. It's not necessary. But if this is like the ultra phone that has everything, I do kind of like it as an add-on.

And just kind of looking at it, it looks like it obviously takes up a lot of space. It's very long, plus you have to have the housing around it to store the pen. I think I'd rather just have extra battery life. Because that's going to take up space. Yeah. Again, I've only been using it for two weeks, so I can't speak totally to battery life. I feel like battery life, you can't really say anything with confidence for like six months with a phone, which is tough. There's just a vibe that you get. Is it good or not?

But it's great. I get compared to like an iPhone 16 Pro Max. Like, it's, I am as unbothered by a battery as I am on the iPhone as I am on this. Like, it's well more than enough for me. But, yeah. Interesting. But more battery is always good, so, obviously. Yeah, I'm excited about the 17 Pro Max and the increased battery life on that. I'm excited to test that. Yeah, me too. But that's it. I'll put you out of your misery.

I liked it. Chris was very close to yawning a few times. I know. Chris did not like it. Here's the last thing I'll say. I won't bring it next week because I think you'll literally die. I also have the Google Pixel 10 that I'm testing. Oh, yes. Please do bring it next week. This one got to me a few days before. So I started using it, and I was like, oh, this is pretty nice. But obviously, I'll like the Pixel more. Obviously, I'll be happier when the Pixel's here, and I'll switch over to that immediately. I like the Galaxy more than the Pixel.

I need to sort my thoughts out about it more, but I can't bring myself to even move my eSIM over to the Pixel from the Ultra. Wow. Yeah. It's weird. Now, let me ask you something. Because I highly doubt you're going to keep two flagship Android devices and probably go buy an iPhone. Are you going to return any of these devices? This is the struggle that I have right now. Because I truly need to. It is ridiculous.

I don't particularly love the Pixel. But if I want to keep up with Android and be able to install the betas when the betas come out, I need a Pixel. But I really like the Ultra. Well, okay, so I think I can help you with this. Because you're not going to mainline the Ultra. Like when the 17 Pro, when you order, I know you're going to get a 17 Pro or 17 Pro Max. I doubt you're going to get the Air. Correct. In fact, you probably have already pre-ordered it now that I have about it.

I saw the toot. Oh, did you already? What did you get, Matt? I just tooted it out. I got the 17 Pro in orange base model. Okay. All right. So once that shows up, great color choice, of course. Of course. All of Comfort Zone agrees. Cosmic Orange is the best. Once that shows up, you're not going to keep a SIM in the Galaxy. You're not going to carry two phones. Let's be honest. Yeah. So obviously the Pixel is the better choice for what you want out of an Android phone, which is to stay up with what modern Android is.

You're right. So the Pixel is probably the better of the two choices for that. Here's what I'll say. Everything you said is factually correct. I love this phone, though. Okay. Look, I get it. I know. I get it. It's a whole thing. It's a whole thing. And then I'm into the Samsung upgrade program, so I can get a big discount. Anyway, it's a whole thing. I totally get it because, like, for years, it would have made way more sense for me to use Sony cameras as a YouTuber.

Sony made cameras that were perfect for YouTubers. But I stuck with Canon because I love Canon and I love their cameras. It's finally paying off, and I'm not going to get into it because, literally, I am probably the only one that cares. Matt cares a little bit, but him and I have talks on the side. He doesn't care enough to actually buy the thing. Canon has finally made a camera for me. And I finally have that payoff moment now. So, yeah. C50 looks great. Yeah. I live vicariously through you. But that's it. No more Android talk until at least next week, maybe longer.

I hope next week one of us has one of the new iPhones at least. I should. We record Fridays. I'm actually going to the store after we record to pick up my next week. Oh, that's ready to come out on Friday. yeah I have I don't I don't know I I literally do not have review units right now it's Friday the 12th I am not so I do not I'm not like holding out and like being like he he I can't you know I literally do not this is I've got the 16 here right here and you can see the challenge thing we'll get to it but yeah how big is that plateau uh what are we talking about iconic or not iconic

Is that iconic to you or what? Not quite iconic. Not quite. Guess what? I also made an Apple purchase. Oh, what did you get? Yeah, a silicone case. Well, you got to order those now because they discontinue them, right? Don't they stop selling the old cases? The colors change. They stop selling colors, yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. All right. Anything else on this or should we move on? Oh, the last thing, it's very, very fast.

Performance-wise, it is very much like the iPhone, and the animations are quicker than iOS's, so it feels quicker at a lot of things. I've done some testing, and games run equivalent. The settings available in Diablo Immortal, Fortnite, they seem to be the same, and it's very, very comparable in iPhone performance from my testing. That's it. All right, well, I am knee-deep in the iPadOS 26 walks through. Like, literally, this is the first thing I've done all week isn't related to the iPadOS 26 walkthrough. I've been pulling like 10, 12 hour days working on this thing.

It is the biggest video I've ever made. Right now, it's clocking in at 52 minutes. I'm hoping to get it down to like 45 because that's like been where other iPadOS walkthroughs have been in the past. But this video is flipping massive. Like it is insane. I have, like I'm still working on like the top down script part top down recording part this is like day three of recording the top down part which is most of the video um you know i and i'm like counting down i'm like okay i got like three days left to go i gotta get this thing done so i'm a little a little like stressed on that bit

right there like literally why i'm recording at another desk because i do not want to disrupt what's happening over there um because it's it's all set up and i'm just like jumping into it like i'm literally going to take my camera from here, mount it on the top-down rig, and get back to recording as soon as we hang up here. But I kind of wanted to chat about our final thoughts on the OS updates. Release candidates are out now. They are all coming out Monday, September 15th. Every single one of them, from watchOS to macOS, visionOS, iOS, iPadOS, tvOS, if there's actually a change in there.

I know there is, but it doesn't really look like much. What is happening? Matt, you're muted. This is just my mood. Don't worry about it. I have no idea what just happened. I just looked over and Neelion's being rained on. Matt was talking and he was muted. I have no idea what's happening anymore. Yeah, this whole episode's a mess. It's partially my fault because I literally moved things that I shouldn't have touched.

don't ever move things never move anything you set something down that's where it lives now but I kind of wanted to go over like I said our final thoughts on the OS updates I've actually used Tahoe I put out a video on Tahoe I've installed it a couple weeks ago I was keeping it from you guys because I knew it would derail the show what? but for the most part I actually kind of like Tahoe I actually like it's not bad and you know what I use Safari

in it and it's not terrible Ducks Oh gosh you need to buy purchase a pair of eyes it's not possible Safari on the Mac is the one place I think I do agree Safari on Tahoe looks insane It's insane It's not great but I'm like it's whatever it's manageable Maybe you know Maybe what it was is I'm like, I don't have to live with this. I'm just using it for a couple of weeks.

I'm just kind of visiting. Even on the MacBook Pro that I'm working at, I'm not going to install Tahoe for a while. I had that M4 MacBook Air review unit that Apple sent me. That's what I put Tahoe on. And I used it as a writing machine. I emailed on it. I did all my administrative tasks and writing and workflow tasks, invoicing people and stuff. I did a bunch of stuff there, and I was like, yeah, this is fine. It works great. I love the new Spotlight, and I love the new menu bar controls. The fact that you can turn off third-party apps, like Bye Bye Adobe, from the menu bar, fantastic.

And then you can group stuff. If you have the new menu bar items, not the old ones, but the new ones, you can group them together. That's great. Yeah. Here's what I'll say. As the resident update lover, who will not hear any dissent, in an odd way, despite the UI funkiness of Tahoe,

Tahoe has unquestionably been the most stable beta, macOS beta, I can ever remember using. If you recall, I installed it the moment we finished our WWDC recording, the day of the keynote. So I was right there. Or the day after. Yeah, okay, day after. So I waited 24 hours after the keynote to install it. I've been using it all summer. None of my apps are broken at all. Usually Final Cut screws up and crashes randomly. Adobe stuff screws up.

The audio apps that do weird things always have issues. Like with the Rogue Amoeb apps, they always show like hey you're on a pre-release os things may not work right and you say i've hit proceed anyway a hundred times no issues so for me it's been very stable i heard on the latest atp john sarcusa's like everything's broken um so he's had a very different experience uh but for me it's been remarkably smooth uh even if safari looks insane he's on one of those intel max they don't count anymore um uh but yeah i uh i it's fine it was fine for me uh you know the biggest issue

that i had with over the betas is on ipad os final cut pro for the ipad uh would crash a bunch when editing i and over the whole summer i only edited one video actually i edited one full length video but i've edited a few shorts the shorts were fine but the full length video that at final cut would crash all the time when I was working in it. So I just kind of like, okay, I'm going to put this aside. They'll put out an update when iPadOS 26 is out. I can use the MacBook Pro for the summer. That's fine. I'm looking forward to getting back to a 100% iPad workflow.

But yeah, this has been, from my standpoint, this has been a fairly stable beta period UI stuff aside. UI stuff obviously was shifting all the time, but stability wise like iOS, iPadOS watchOS those have been like the main ones that I've been using totally fine totally fine for me I am going to install Tahoe later tonight I think because we are on the release candidate

so iMessage thread is about to get spicy so let's just rip the bandaid off I will install it later today after we record um and i don't have any additional thoughts like i've said everything yeah i've said everything i think it looks like trash on the mac especially i i always i got used to it i still dislike it in a lot of places but on the mac is where i was worried from day one the recording that we did after WWDC,

I said on the show, I said, I'm worried about macOS now. And I am still worried today as I'm about to install the release candidate. I have a very good friend. A few weeks ago, I told them about the redesign on macOS and asked their thoughts. And when they looked at it, I showed them a bunch of screenshots. I remember showing them Jason Snell preview of my Questaho because he's got a bunch of screenshots in there.

And I remember him being shocked about the sidebars, like the floating sidebars, almost as much as I am shocked about those floating sidebars. And I remember he said, I guarantee you, Niléane, Apple is not going to ship this. This cannot ship. Like, absolutely, this is not going to ship next month. And here we are, release candidate. All the sidebars are floating. So there you go. It's happening.

I will leave. And there was one thing I wanted to mention as well. On Tahoe, the corner radius of the windows are all over the place. And that's intentional, supposedly, because concentricity and what else. I am praying that most of the apps I use get updated just for that corner radius, because I will not be able to bear it if I have to have a bunch of windows on screen that have different corner radius.

That may drive me insane. Apart from that, yeah, I've said it all. Yeah. I actually have a take that you may not see coming okay having spent a couple weeks with android phones which are totally different to ui um very flat very by comparison clean um I actually when I started because I've been picking up the iphone less and like I it's so it's less like ingrained in me like just seeing the same thing every time i think it's a little garish

like it's a little too much like it's a little like especially when like i've got like the glassy like on my lock screen i have the glassy time the glassy notifications the glassy camera and flashlight buttons um it's kind of a lot and i don't i don't know i think i was 28 29 it's gonna be sick but uh i do feel like especially being like re-exposed to just like a more simple design system and being kind of refreshed by it um it kind of puts it into context and i do think they've kind of gone too hard still and it's a little too much like i said a few months ago we were talking

about it like they always do like these transparent uis and then they dial them back dial them back and then we have these opaque uis and then they're like i bet we can make that transparent couldn't we and we do it all over again. So I don't hate it. I don't think it's a disaster necessarily, but I don't think I love where they landed. I think it's still cranked up too much. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah.

I am kind of in the middle. There's some bits that I'm like, eh, but for the most part, I'm okay. Yeah. Well, and also because like when we're recording now, it isn't officially out, but Apple's just like approving and releasing Liquid Glass updates. Like you can build a new Xcode version and release, which I don't think they've done before. Usually you have to wait until... No, they did that. They started doing that a couple of years ago where you could release ahead of time. Okay. Well, I'm seeing some updates for apps that now have Liquid Glass and they don't feel that different.

Like, they just have a cut. Their buttons look a little different. Like, it's really... Which you know is going to really upset developers to hear because, like, there's been so many issues with Liquid. I mean, as you know, because you did this, there's been so many issues with Liquid Glass over the development period, over the beta period, that, like, developers have spent so much time just trying to get some of these buttons to work properly and their animation behaviors to be consistent. but like i but i know what you're saying and i agree yeah like i i don't want to call it any specific apps specifically like i'm not gonna do that here but like i know on this something marco's

marco arment has talked about a lot over the summer is like he's said like apps that don't do liquid glass are going to look old and i really don't think the liquid glass apps look any different like it's it's blinking you'll miss it yeah the the redesigns i've seen like it's it's very very subtle um so yeah i don't know maybe it'll change by the time we have like more app updates out but like after all this like hubbub and everything like it's a couple menu buttons have changed it's like everything else is the same so maybe there'll be some bigger redesigns that i got

i got an update for train line today the app that i used for the book train uh public transit i'm not familiar we don't do that yeah i don't is that like where like everyone has their own car and you drive on a road um it's it's where a billionaire digs tunnels and you drive teslas into them that's any day now it's gonna be ready yeah any day anyway so yeah chainline garden update today with liquid glass

toolbar the tap bar at the bottom and you're right it's not different at all except for that okay and it's just and I think is it worth doing that because it's just worse yeah because now the tap bar I can't see as clearly because it's over a bunch of things like all the travel details is under the tap bar like it's it's both very subtle and annoying at the same time. It's the worst of both worlds.

I hate it anyway. Yeah. We'll see how this goes. There'll be a lot of updates. There's going to be a lot. But one thing I think we can all agree on, the unsung hero of the OS 26 updates, iPadOS. I mean, how great is it? It's fantastic. I mean, yeah. It's 80% of everything that I've been wanting for iPadOS is there. Like, it's flipping great.

Window management is great. The funny thing is, is there's definitely two groups of camp on here where people, there's some people that absolutely love it. And then there is some people like on Reddit that are so angry, slide over and split view is gone. And split view is still kind of there. Like, you could still do the 50-50 split view and have the slider. and now it's even better because you can do any ratio you want. It's not just half and half or one-third, two-third. You can literally just move that slider to any position.

The thing that a lot of people are complaining about is the removal of slide over. And this one doesn't bother me as much because apps, when you put them in the new window mode, they now remember their size and position. Even after you minimize them, force quit them, reboot your iPad, they will always remember their size and position. So if you want to put the music app where SlideOver used to be, you can always have it there. You can then minimize it, quit it, reboot your iPad. And when you tap that music app icon again, it's going to open up right back in that position.

So it doesn't bother me as much. Maybe it just takes a little bit more management. But it's one of those things that I actually think you have more freedom now. because yes, it will remember those positions. You can put them in the classic slide over position, but you can also put them in more positions. You can put them in like a more square window shape or you can put them, you can push them off the side of the iPad's display. Like you can, just like on macOS, you can move a window to be off the display or like mostly off a display,

not completely off, but like mostly off the display. Like there's so much more freedom with this new window management system that I don't know why anyone is pining for the old system. I do not get it. It's not like I don't understand the iPad. I do not get why anyone wants the old system over this new system. Yeah, it's an interesting thing. I think the thing I've been kind of tracking this summer as I've seen people use the new iPadOS is it seems like there's two groups of iPad users broadly.

There's people like you who wanted more, people like me who wanted to do more. I needed to be more like a Mac. I want those things. I want those extra features. I want that freedom. And then there's people who didn't want that. They wanted the limitations. They liked the like touch first, like swipe in from the side. Okay, I got it. Hide it away. And it's always there. I don't have to like swipe up to get the dock and then tap the icon or like make sure it's like whatever. So like, and they kind of got used to these things and they liked that it was different than the Mac. And now that it's like the Mac, annoyed that yes they have this freedom yes they can still kind of replicate their workflows but

it's kind of like i just showed you an android phone where you can do most of the things you do on your iphone but chris you were completely uninterested because you're like well no it's going to be worse in every way i like it this way i'm uninterested because the apps that i want to use and the apps that i use to to do my work are not there sure so it's like it one of the like i don't do the whole android experiment like a lot of the people in our sphere do because it doesn't like there's nothing it does for me that like i i feel like i i mean i will watch the google

keynotes i will see what's new there but buying a device like i'm not going to put my sim in an android device i'm not going to carry two phones i'm not going to do any of that stuff so it doesn't interests me what interests me is the platform that i care about ipad ios and the new stuff that you can do with it and okay where can i get creative and where can i push these new things from here yeah that makes sense i'm also remembering i didn't mention my very favorite thing about this phone but i'll save it i'll save it i'll save it disaster but yeah so chris you're

I mean, you're very happy. Like, is there anything that is worse? I mean, is anything worse about this update? Or is it like just, you're just on cloud nine. Like, this is great. I'm on cloud nine. This update, like, there are things I still want from here. There's absolutely things I still want from here. And, like, but I also get, this is a lot for a single update. This is hands down the biggest release for iPadOS ever. Like, even going back to when it was still iOS 9, you know, that kind of stuff. This is hands down the biggest update, just like feature pack set ever to the iPad.

I mean, I can, here, I'll tell you right now. The, so I have a two minute section on design, but other than that, in the first half of the video, but other than that, the multitasking and windowing stuff, all of that stuff that's built into there. And that includes like external monitor support, how it runs on like the iPad mini, the menu the dock, all that stuff is about 30 minutes minus about two minutes for the intro and a design

segment where I talk about like, I'll mention more design stuff throughout this. And here's a few things. So about 28 minutes of my iPadOS walkthrough right now is dedicated to this window management system because there is some complexity to it. It's not simple and straightforward, but there is layers to it. Like stage manager is now a layer on top of this new windowing system. It's not like a separate multitasking mode anymore so for me like everything is better in this update like everything there's there's nothing that i'm pining for to go back to ipad os 18 or some previous

version of ipad os ipad os 26 is apple and like this is literally going to be the title i think we've talked about in a previous episode ipad os 26 reboots the ipad this is this is a fresh start for the iPad. Between the M4 iPad Pros and this iPad, this is a fresh start for the iPad. This is Apple's chance to basically say we are recommitting to the iPad. We're going to keep going. Now, my eyes will heavily be on iPadOS 27 and what's in that. Now, I don't expect as big of a release that iPadOS 26 is in iPadOS 27 because one thing I learned at WWDC, this new windowing mode took two

years to make which is why ipad os 18 was so lacking of features because they were already working on this new multitasking and windowing mode back then i don't know what version like what form it was a year ago i don't know how it evolved over those two years i i don't know any of those details but i know it took two years um so i don't expect big releases like this every single year and honestly now that they've kind of solved windowing and multitasking i'm hoping we can just walk away from that. We don't need to talk about windowing and multitasking anymore.

That's solved. Okay, add features on top of it, sure, but it doesn't need to be redesigned every two years anymore. This is it. This works. It works both great in tablet mode. It works great with both a keyboard and trackpad paired. And if you're just using your iPad in tablet mode, use the flick gestures. We talked about it. Just start dragging a window and flick it to the side. Just flick it. Flick it. You just flick it. That's the new drag and drop. It makes sense. Once you start doing it, you will get accustomed to it, and it'll be very natural.

But yeah, there's nothing in this update that's making me want to go back to any of the old software. I'm not a nostalgic person. I'm not like, oh, I missed the iOS 9 days. It was just a simpler time and stuff. I don't care about any of that. I don't want to go back. I only want to go forward. And this is it. So I'm hoping things, you know, next year, I'm hoping next year with iPadOS 27. And it feels weird to be even talking about that, considering this one isn't even officially out yet.

But I hope it's a more refinement year. I hope it's like, okay, we got the base. Now let's tweak everything to make it a little more smoother around the edges. Yeah, I think that's great. They shouldn't have to make changes like this every year. So, yeah, I'm glad it's gone the right direction. Yeah, and I think in our predictions episode, we'll get to this at the end of the year. But you guys remember Matt came up with that game where we figured it out, and I jokingly said Apple's going to make an iPadOS multitasking system

that makes people like me and Federico happy. Talk about getting a point. Talk about points on the board. I mean, right there, that's just win me the game. Because look at how many multitasking systems the iPad has had, and look how many times people have been happy. So I think that's true. That's true. I think I should just win the game right here. Like, you know. You'll get one point. But yeah. Anything else on the new OS updates? Any features you guys want to highlight? Yes. Let me just use the camera reactions one more time.

Yeah. It's raining on me. Okay. All right. Well, we should probably move on to, gosh, those reactions. How are you doing that? Is that a Riverside thing? I've never seen this. In the menu bar. Oh, it's just a macOS one? Yeah. I haven't seen that one. Oh, that's macOS? Oh. Yeah. Look. Oh. Anyway. Oh, I see. This is going to be destroying the video. Yes. All righty. Let's move on to the challenge.

Niléane, it was your challenge. Yes. I don't even know. So the challenge was find an unexpected use for a popsocket. I believe the S is part of the name, right? It's popsockets, even in singular form. So yeah, I will go first and say that this challenge is a bust. I had no idea what to do with this.

Oh no. I have something I just wrote down bed in my submission, which is that I've been using it in bed. Okay. Using it in bed. Okay. Nobody has ever thought about that before. New technology here, people. This is unexpected to the sky. Anyway, yes, use the pop socket with your phone in bed. It's a great way to hold your phone in bed while scrolling TikTok and your hand doesn't have fatigue.

Anyway, this is a bust. I have no idea what to do with this. I was thinking maybe like come up with a weird attachment system for it. And I think and there are attachment things for it, accessories, especially if you go on the PopSockets website, there are accessories. Maybe one of you got one. But they are way too expensive for what they are. They are also very ugly, I find. It's a bad combo.

Yes. And I think when I proposed this challenge to you, this prompt, I had succumbed to the propaganda of PopSockets people who keep saying this is a versatile accessory. Interesting. So I was thinking, okay, All those people are saying this is versatile. Surely we can find some unexpected things to do with them.

This could be a fun challenge. And there we are. I have no idea what to do with this apart from sticking it onto my phone or ordering a multiple tens of euros dollar accessory from Bob Socket, which looks insane. So I want to hear what. How much of a bust was it for the two of you? I can go first do it it was a mistake for me to even agree to a challenge this week because I traveled for work basically right after

we recorded and I just got back at midnight last night I don't have a pop sock you don't have a pop sock I didn't have time to get one I couldn't do it I literally could have done no challenge and us was like, use your phone like normal because you're traveling and you need to be on it. You probably could have picked one up in the airport. I probably could have. You know they have them at some crappy kiosk there. Yeah, duty-free prop sockets.

Yeah, I probably could. There's a Hudson News that surely has. There you go. Yeah, they definitely had them there. I cannot tell you how stressful this week has been. Yeah, I kind of felt bad for you. I hit you up with two different things, a bug in one of your apps and something related to Comfort Zone. And, like, both times I was like, I'm so sorry to beat the messaging you. It's fine. It's fine. But, yes, it was a crazy week. I was not able to do the challenge. Okay. Double bust. Moving on, Chris. Definitely a bust. So I ordered a PopSocket, and mine was, well, I had to prove the best starter, so I got a Charmander PopSocket.

I spent an extra $10 to get this one, to get an officially licensed Pokemon one. So I spent $35 on this thing. And you know what? I came up with one use for it. And now, I don't keep up with the PopSocket trades. You know, I don't know what's happening in Big PopSocket land. Do people know you can, like, hold it like this and watch, like, video landscape? Like, people know that? This is, like, the main use of the thing. So the other use I came up for was annoying the Everlady out of me.

I hated this thing. This thing was stupid. It just kept getting in my way. I hate this thing. Challenge is over. I'm done with that thing. I just threw it across the room for the audience. This is the other thing. When I travel, I use a MagSafe wallet that's always attached to my phone, and so I couldn't use the PopSocket there either. Same. Yeah. Nealian, you won. Charmander obviously loses. Charmander loses to Blastoise every time. What? No. Weakness. No way. You can't do it. No. because Charmander can evolve into Charizard and Charizard can learn Thunder Punch.

Thank you very much, which is weak to Blastoise. And I believe Charizard has a higher speed than Blastoise, so he would go first. Charizard beats Blastoise. And also, like Matt, I use a MagSafe wallet and MagSafe chargers throughout the house, so I was constantly having to take the stupid thing off to put on the wallet or put on the charger. Literally, I was so stressed this week, and that thing just kept pushing me over the edge and annoyed me. I was so pissed off at that thing this whole week. I was like, I could not wait for this challenge to be over.

It's not going to go into the box of tech that I keep. I have this box of things when people come over, I'll be like, hey, do you want any of these things that I got from my various work things, like jobs that you can have? No, that thing's going in the garbage because I'm not going to let anyone suffer at the hands of a pop socket. I mean, Neil Ian's making it look pretty cool. it is cool like I think like for real it's growing on me you said that last week I believe I said that

off the air which is right doesn't count so I want to say on the air it's growing on me and you could have been smart is what I'm going to say because they sell always an option MagSafe PopSockets wallet this you can get a PopSocket wallet with MagSafe oh that's a big that's gotta be chunky right I'm not gonna give that company any more money the phone the wallet and then the PopSocket is part of the wallet the PopSocket is right

it's part of the wallet and you stuck it on the back of your phone like a MagSafe wallet do not reward this with your hard-earned money, listeners. They do not deserve your money. They make a terrible product. Banned. I do agree. The prices are a bit insane. 40 euros for a MagSafe pop-sucking wallet. And as far as I can tell, it's plastic. Perfect. How many cars?

Three cars. Okay, that's as much as... That's it. That's the norm, I think. Yeah, that's the norm. Nah. I hated this challenge. This one goes up there with Coldplay, and I didn't even do this one. Literally, I've been so stressed this week, and that thing just added extra annoyance to it. It would just get in my way, because I don't need a PopSocket to hold my phone. I got big hands. I can type on it one-handed, no problem. It just kept getting in the way.

This went great. I'm so happy about this. This went great. This is a great challenge. It was a bust, but in a great way. It pushed me outside of my comfort zone. I will admit to that, but not in a good way. I could have guessed that, yes. Okay. Thank you, guys. Thank you, guy, I guess. I'll see myself out. We understand, right? The audience will decide, maybe. Chris, you have a new challenge for us. I do. All right. I'm going to put it in the document right now.

And the challenge is relax. this is a very stressful time of the year this is a time of the year where we're all busy big business boy Matt big business boy Birchler sorry I did the wrong thing .gov.uk.eu he's doing work stuff Neil Leon you're off being president and writing at Mac Stories and podcasting I'm working on my workflow So what I want us to do is just take some time out of our week.

At any point this week, between now and our next recording, relax. Do something with tech that isn't related to your work and you can't monetize it. Just do something with tech. Because I was thinking about this and I was like, the reason why I got into all of this, YouTube, podcasting, all of this stuff, is because I love technology. I love fiddling with it. I love tinkering with it. I love just messing around with it. So do something that's just not related to your job that you just want to do for fun and bring it to the show.

Okay. So we need to make sure we don't have a sponsor next week. Otherwise, we will be monetizing what we did. Okay. Now we're getting a little too into the, like, what? If you have an app to sell, don't talk to us next week. No, no. Do not listen to him. Contact John Voorhees. Please sponsor us. You can use your money. Voorhees at maxdories.net. Please email. Please email John Voorhees at macstories.net. I don't know if that's his actual email. Look it up on macstories.net. But yeah, email him. Sponsor us, please. We will take your money. But how, I'm worried about Matt.

How will he fit this relaxing time into his calendar? His packed calendar? I have 30 minutes here and there I can relax. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, he can. You know what you do, Matt? you get some AI-generated video of you, and you have it attend one of your meetings for you. There you go. And then you go off and build a model airplane or something. I don't know. Okay. That's a good idea. Yeah, there you go. All right.

That brings us to the end of the show. Yes. Somebody put an end of the show question in the document before I could get to it. So I don't know who put it in there. I put it in there. Oh, why don't you read it then? Somebody named Bastion submitted an end of the show question for us. It seems long in our document. It's a very simple question, actually. They're basically asking what would our ideal browser be like if we could cobble it out of components that we like

from different real browsers. What's a fictional web browser that's ideal to us that we would create if you could? I mean, definitely Chrome Engine, because I'm tired of switching web browsers every time I need to do something different. Safari's OS features like tab profiles and like iCloud tabs and stuff like that. Like those are really useful to me. I see in here one of the things that he mentioned was a built-in ad blocker. Absolutely not because I like to be able to pay my mortgage.

Sorry, I'm a little selfish there. A little selfish there. I like being able to pay my mortgage. I know, a little weird. And then you know what? sidebar tabs the whole sidebar tab design thing I like that welcome yeah I think I would just my answer is just the design of Arc browser and extensions Chromium Engine but it's made by a huge company that will not go out

with the money anytime soon so I can keep using it for years at a time without worrying about its destiny. There you go. Yep, I like it. My answer is, I was thinking what the things would be, and it is, yes, must be Chromium-based, must have sidebar. Honestly, the answer is ARK, but owned by Vivaldi. Oh, that's a very good answer. Yes, ARK owned by Vivaldi. I think they'd be good. I checked my answer there. That's also my answer.

I wonder if the new company that bought the browser company, I wonder if they would sell off Arc. I don't know. Atlassian seems like the kind of company that would open source it and then forget it ever existed. That's all we need. When they get asked about it, they say, it's on GitHub, you can find it, don't worry about it. And last commit was eight years ago, you know? That's right. But I mean, let them open source it and then let a company like Vivaldi take that and then run with it.

That never happens with big products like that. When there's a big product like that that's been abandoned and then it gets open sourced by the new owner, it gets forgotten. Because you don't want to pick it up. Technical debt, you don't know anything about. And the code base you don't know anything about. wants to do that work for free yeah yep neilion's clearly saying open source is bad wow that's what you're saying i'm saying it's not a good fit for art all right well that's a

good part to wrap up the show thank you all so much for listening have a great day bye bye Bye.